Which SCSI card for old Powermac

[ts]

Hi,

I've got a couple of fast SCSI drives (Seagate Cheetah) which I'd like
to use in my old Powermac I still have for running classic programmes.

I assume it is possible to obtain higher data transfer rates by
connecting the HD via a aftermarket PCI SCI adapter - any suggestions to
which adapter to look for for my old 9600? I tried an Adaptec
APD-2940UW, but it could not find the drive I connected to it.

TIA,

[Andreas Rutishauser]

Salut ts

Post by ts
I've got a couple of fast SCSI drives (Seagate Cheetah) which I'd like
to use in my old Powermac I still have for running classic programmes.
I assume it is possible to obtain higher data transfer rates by
connecting the HD via a aftermarket PCI SCI adapter - any suggestions to
which adapter to look for for my old 9600? I tried an Adaptec
APD-2940UW, but it could not find the drive I connected to it.

have you checked for ID conflicts with i.e. SCSIProbe?
Do you have the PowerDomain Control Utilty?

The links on this page still seem to work:
<http://www.adaptec.com/en-us/downloads/macos/macos_8x_and_9x/productid=a
pd-2940uw&dn=powerdomain+2940uw.html>

Cheers
Andreas

[ts]

Post by Andreas Rutishauser

Post by ts
which adapter to look for for my old 9600? I tried an Adaptec
APD-2940UW, but it could not find the drive I connected to it.

have you checked for ID conflicts with i.e. SCSIProbe?
Do you have the PowerDomain Control Utilty?

Many thanks for your suggestions, Andreas!

I've got the updated software, and can see that the ROM of the 2940 card
has been flashed to a more recent version.

I don't think it's an ID conflict issue, in another Powermac (8600) I've
got an Adaptec 2930CU that works with the Hard disk, and reports its
SCSI ID as different from the ones taken in the 9600.

The documentation booklet for the 2940 says it only works with SE
drives, but as far as I can see the jumper settings of the HD have been
set to SE.

Could it be a termination issue with the 2940 (if its requirements are
different than for the 2930), or does the 2940 simply not work in the
9600?

[Andreas Rutishauser]

Salut ts

Post by ts

Post by Andreas Rutishauser

Post by ts
which adapter to look for for my old 9600? I tried an Adaptec
APD-2940UW, but it could not find the drive I connected to it.

have you checked for ID conflicts with i.e. SCSIProbe?
Do you have the PowerDomain Control Utilty?

I've got the updated software, and can see that the ROM of the 2940 card
has been flashed to a more recent version.
I don't think it's an ID conflict issue, in another Powermac (8600) I've
got an Adaptec 2930CU that works with the Hard disk, and reports its
SCSI ID as different from the ones taken in the 9600.
The documentation booklet for the 2940 says it only works with SE
drives, but as far as I can see the jumper settings of the HD have been
set to SE.

could you explain SE to me? English abbreviations are not my mother
tongue...

Post by ts
Could it be a termination issue with the 2940 (if its requirements are
different than for the 2930), or does the 2940 simply not work in the
9600?

It could be the SCSI ID of the card. Erik says the CPU has ID 7, the
manual says, the card has ID 7 (that would by a bad move by Adaptec or
my understanding of SCSI IDs is wrong ;-))

According to this page 2940UW (it does not mention if APD or AHA) runs
in a 9600:
<https://www.macgurus.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-21701.html>

Cheers
Andreas

[ts]

Post by Andreas Rutishauser
Salut ts

Post by ts

Post by Andreas Rutishauser

Post by ts
which adapter to look for for my old 9600? I tried an Adaptec
APD-2940UW, but it could not find the drive I connected to it.

have you checked for ID conflicts with i.e. SCSIProbe?
Do you have the PowerDomain Control Utilty?

I've got the updated software, and can see that the ROM of the 2940 card
has been flashed to a more recent version.
I don't think it's an ID conflict issue, in another Powermac (8600) I've
got an Adaptec 2930CU that works with the Hard disk, and reports its
SCSI ID as different from the ones taken in the 9600.
The documentation booklet for the 2940 says it only works with SE
drives, but as far as I can see the jumper settings of the HD have been
set to SE.

could you explain SE to me? English abbreviations are not my mother
tongue...

Sorry, SE is simply "Single Ended" - as the original Mac 50-pin SCSI
drives were. As opposed to LVD (low voltage differential) drives - or
HDs capable to be used in either mode (AFAIU).

Post by Andreas Rutishauser

Post by ts
Could it be a termination issue with the 2940 (if its requirements are
different than for the 2930), or does the 2940 simply not work in the
9600?

It could be the SCSI ID of the card. Erik says the CPU has ID 7, the
manual says, the card has ID 7 (that would by a bad move by Adaptec or
my understanding of SCSI IDs is wrong ;-))

I cannot see how I can change the SCSI ID of the 2940UW?

Post by Andreas Rutishauser
According to this page 2940UW (it does not mention if APD or AHA) runs
<https://www.macgurus.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-21701.html>

I've tested the 2940UW a bit more today - in a B&W G3. The G3 recognises
the card (as did my 9600), it allows a 50-pin Barracuda drive to mount
(although the G3 will not boot from the Barracuda). So the card works,
in a way. When I connected a Cheetah to it (an 80-pin SCA drive, via an
adapter to the 50-pin SCSI flat cable), the drive was not recognised
(same status as with the 2940UW in my 9600), and an alert window asking
if I wanted to initialise the drive came up.

It seems that there are (have been) a couple of incompatabilities
reported with the 2940UW and aftermarket upgrade CPUs for the Powermac
series. Why did I not remember to check out what the xlr8yourMac had on
this topic earlier - ?

<http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/ULTIMATE_MAC/SCSI_CARDS/> mentions indeed
that the 2930 card was compatible, being a "narrow SCSI model".

I've seen some mention that the Mac 29160N card may be more likely to
work, as my 2930CU card currently does. That will be the next step to
try out, on the SCSI pathway to performance.

Unless an IDE PCI card and ditto drives are likely to outperform the
Cheetahs?

Thanks again!

[Erik Richard Sørensen]

Post by ts

Post by Andreas Rutishauser
could you explain SE to me? English abbreviations are not my mother
tongue...

Sorry, SE is simply "Single Ended" - as the original Mac 50-pin SCSI
drives were. As opposed to LVD (low voltage differential) drives - or
HDs capable to be used in either mode (AFAIU).

Yes and no... If it is a built-in SCSI card you're right, but if is
bought separately as an add-on card, Adaptec have some SCSI cards like
the 'AHA-2940U2B SE'. - Here 'SE' is standing for 'Special Edition' -
i.e. a card with dual firmware for both Mac AND Windows.

Post by ts

Post by Andreas Rutishauser

Post by ts
Could it be a termination issue with the 2940 (if its requirements are
different than for the 2930), or does the 2940 simply not work in the
9600?

It could be the SCSI ID of the card. Erik says the CPU has ID 7, the
manual says, the card has ID 7 (that would by a bad move by Adaptec or
my understanding of SCSI IDs is wrong ;-))

I cannot see how I can change the SCSI ID of the 2940UW?

Post by Andreas Rutishauser
According to this page 2940UW (it does not mention if APD or AHA) runs
<https://www.macgurus.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-21701.html>

I've tested the 2940UW a bit more today - in a B&W G3. The G3 recognises
the card (as did my 9600), it allows a 50-pin Barracuda drive to mount
(although the G3 will not boot from the Barracuda). So the card works,
in a way. When I connected a Cheetah to it (an 80-pin SCA drive, via an
adapter to the 50-pin SCSI flat cable), the drive was not recognised
(same status as with the 2940UW in my 9600), and an alert window asking
if I wanted to initialise the drive came up.
It seems that there are (have been) a couple of incompatabilities
reported with the 2940UW and aftermarket upgrade CPUs for the Powermac
series. Why did I not remember to check out what the xlr8yourMac had on
this topic earlier - ?
<http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/ULTIMATE_MAC/SCSI_CARDS/> mentions indeed
that the 2930 card was compatible, being a "narrow SCSI model".
I've seen some mention that the Mac 29160N card may be more likely to
work, as my 2930CU card currently does. That will be the next step to
try out, on the SCSI pathway to performance.

You can't change the fixed ID on the 2940UW card. I think the best for
you will be either the 29160N Mac Edition or a AHA-2940U2B, since this
card has a 68-pins wide internal connector as well as the 68-pins external.

Going from SCA 80-pins to std. 50-pins can be a real pain on some Macs -
especially the older non-G3/G4 PowerMacs.

Post by ts
Unless an IDE PCI card and ditto drives are likely to outperform the
Cheetahs?

On my now sold PM 9600/350mhz I both had the AHA-2940U2B and an ACARD
ATA-6 PCI card. Not even that card with a Seagate 160gb 7200rpm/16mb
cache disk could outperform my Atlas V and Cheetah disks connected to
the 2940U2B. - I still have the two disks and also got a new PM 9600 and
these two will be mounted as soon as I get the time for doing this. - I
still have some older software that need the bootability in OS 9.2.x to
be able to print from these apps. - I can't print on the MDD running
classic within 10.4.11.:-(

Cheers, Erik Richard

[Erik Richard Sørensen]

Post by ts
I've got a couple of fast SCSI drives (Seagate Cheetah) which I'd like
to use in my old Powermac I still have for running classic programmes.
I assume it is possible to obtain higher data transfer rates by
connecting the HD via a aftermarket PCI SCI adapter - any suggestions to
which adapter to look for for my old 9600? I tried an Adaptec
APD-2940UW, but it could not find the drive I connected to it.

As far as I remember the APD-2940UW will not work in a Mac. I have one
myself on the shelf and have never been able to make it work in my PM
9600...

You can use one of these card:
Adaptec AHA-2903B/AHA2906 (SCSI-2)
Adaptec AVA-2930/2930U Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940 Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940U Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940UW Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940U2W Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940U2B Macintosh Edition

Adaptec AHA-2940U2W and 2940U2B Macintosh Edition are available in both
single-channel and dual-channel versions.
- Single-channel supports up to 6 SCSI 68-pins units, 5 internal 68-pins
+ 1 external 68-pins.
- Dual-channel up to 12 units, 9 68-pins and 2 50-pins internal + 1
68-pins external

- On the single-channel version of the U2W and U2B, SCSI IDs must be set
from 0 to 6
- On the dual-channel version of the U2W and U2B, SCSI IDs must be set
to 0 to 6 for each channel.

NOTE. SCSI ID 7 is automatically allocated to the CPU and as the
terminator and must never be used on a SCSI unit.

Also ACARD Mac Edition AHARD UL-2 single-channel, AHARD UL-3
single-channel and AHARD UL-4D dual-channel will work in a PM 95/9600
with same settings as the Adaptec cards.

HTH.
Cheers, Erik Richard

[Andreas Rutishauser]

Salut Erik

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen

Post by ts
I've got a couple of fast SCSI drives (Seagate Cheetah) which I'd like
to use in my old Powermac I still have for running classic programmes.
I assume it is possible to obtain higher data transfer rates by
connecting the HD via a aftermarket PCI SCI adapter - any suggestions to
which adapter to look for for my old 9600? I tried an Adaptec
APD-2940UW, but it could not find the drive I connected to it.

As far as I remember the APD-2940UW will not work in a Mac.

in what computer if not a Mac should an APD run? In my understanding the
PD (PowerDomain) models are the Mac versions...
The User Manual of the card shows Macs and mentions system rquirements:
Hardware
- MacOS PCI-based (peripheral component interconnect) computer
- 8 MB RAM (random-access memory) ? At least one free PCI expansion
slot
Software
MacOS version 7.5.2 or later

Ok, could still be for a Mac clone...

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
NOTE. SCSI ID 7 is automatically allocated to the CPU and as the
terminator and must never be used on a SCSI unit.

Hm, this could be ts's problem... The user's guide says:
The PowerDomain 2940UW/3940UW is shipped with a SCSI ID of 7. To
determine the SCSI IDs of disk drives, CD-ROM drives, and other devices,
refer to the device documentation.

Cheers
Andreas

[Erik Richard Sørensen]

Hi Andreas

Post by Andreas Rutishauser

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen

Post by ts
I've got a couple of fast SCSI drives (Seagate Cheetah) which I'd like
to use in my old Powermac I still have for running classic programmes.
I assume it is possible to obtain higher data transfer rates by
connecting the HD via a aftermarket PCI SCI adapter - any suggestions to
which adapter to look for for my old 9600? I tried an Adaptec
APD-2940UW, but it could not find the drive I connected to it.

As far as I remember the APD-2940UW will not work in a Mac.

in what computer if not a Mac should an APD run? In my understanding the
PD (PowerDomain) models are the Mac versions...
Hardware
- MacOS PCI-based (peripheral component interconnect) computer
- 8 MB RAM (random-access memory) ? At least one free PCI expansion
slot
Software
MacOS version 7.5.2 or later

I've had more Adaptec APD SCSI cards, but I have never been able to make
any of them work in any of these Macs
- PM 7600/120mhz
- PM 9600/2x200mhz
- PM 9600/350mhz
- G3-DT/233mhz
- G3-MT/300mhz (upg. to 1133mhz)
- B&W G3/350mhz (upg. to 1100mhz)
- G4/400 Sawtooth
- G4/400 Sawtooth (upg. to 1,4ghz)
- G4/400 Sawtooth (upg. to 2x1,4ghz)
- G4/867mhz QuickSilver
- G4/867mhz QuickSilver (upg. to 2x1,8ghz)
- G4/2x1,0ghz MDD
- G4/1,25ghz MDD

As soon as I exchanged the APD-2940UW card with an AHA-2940UW Macintosh
Edition it just worked. I still have the 1,25ghz MDD with this card....

Post by Andreas Rutishauser
Ok, could still be for a Mac clone...

Putting the APD-2940UW card into a Windows based computer made it
visible and usabnle at once in WinXP and XPPro. I've never had one
myself, but was told that the PowerComputing 180mhz needed the APD SCSI
card to run wide-SCSI disks and other wide-SCSI devices. So I can't dis-
or verify this.

I have only had one 'PowerDomain' SCSI card - an single channel Adaptec
'AHA-2940U2W SE'. That card I had in the Beige G3-MT, where it worked fine.

Post by Andreas Rutishauser

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
NOTE. SCSI ID 7 is automatically allocated to the CPU and as the
terminator and must never be used on a SCSI unit.

The PowerDomain 2940UW/3940UW is shipped with a SCSI ID of 7. To
determine the SCSI IDs of disk drives, CD-ROM drives, and other devices,
refer to the device documentation.

Hm, could be... But I came to think of another issue. /IF/ the card once
has been mounted in a Windows computer and the firmware was updated /
changed this will remove the original firmware /if/ 'PD' is standing for
'PowerDomain'. Because of the chipset the card will still be recognized
as present in Mac OS 8.x to 9.2.x, but NOT in system 7.5.x.

And if the APD-2940 isnot a 'PowerDomain', but a Win-only card that has
been flashed with the Adaptec flash tool, the card will not work if
system is upgraded from system 7.5.x to fx. OS 8.x og 9.x - unless it is
re-flashed with the suitable newer flash tool...

So my guess still is that either it is a Win-only card or maybe a
flashed Win-card.

Cheers, Erik Richard

[ts]

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
As far as I remember the APD-2940UW will not work in a Mac. I have one
myself on the shelf and have never been able to make it work in my PM
9600...

The APD-2940UW I've been trying out does _work_ in my PM9600 - but only
with the 50-pin drive version. Not with my Cheetahs, and since I haven't
tried a 68-pin drive I cannot comment on that. Now having read a bit
more about this PCI card it seems to be several potential issues,
though; not having flashed it with the right software (.av version for
AV PMs), conflict with some aftermarket upgrade CPUs, plus the others
already mentioned - termination, ID conflicts, forced SE mode of Ultra
HDs etc.

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
Adaptec AHA-2903B/AHA2906 (SCSI-2)
Adaptec AVA-2930/2930U Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940 Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940U Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940UW Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940U2W Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940U2B Macintosh Edition

Where did you find this info?

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
Adaptec AHA-2940U2W and 2940U2B Macintosh Edition are available in both
single-channel and dual-channel versions.
- Single-channel supports up to 6 SCSI 68-pins units, 5 internal 68-pins
+ 1 external 68-pins.
- Dual-channel up to 12 units, 9 68-pins and 2 50-pins internal + 1
68-pins external
- On the single-channel version of the U2W and U2B, SCSI IDs must be set
from 0 to 6
- On the dual-channel version of the U2W and U2B, SCSI IDs must be set
to 0 to 6 for each channel.
NOTE. SCSI ID 7 is automatically allocated to the CPU and as the
terminator and must never be used on a SCSI unit.

I've eliminated SCSI ID conflicts in my 9600, for what is was worth . .

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
Also ACARD Mac Edition AHARD UL-2 single-channel, AHARD UL-3
single-channel and AHARD UL-4D dual-channel will work in a PM 95/9600
with same settings as the Adaptec cards.

Never seen any of those, will keep an eye for them as potential
candidates.

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
HTH.
Cheers, Erik Richard

Many thanks, Erik - every input to this problem is welcome!

[Erik Richard Sørensen]

Post by ts

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
As far as I remember the APD-2940UW will not work in a Mac. I have one
myself on the shelf and have never been able to make it work in my PM
9600...

The APD-2940UW I've been trying out does _work_ in my PM9600 - but only
with the 50-pin drive version. Not with my Cheetahs, and since I haven't
tried a 68-pin drive I cannot comment on that. Now having read a bit
more about this PCI card it seems to be several potential issues,
though; not having flashed it with the right software (.av version for
AV PMs), conflict with some aftermarket upgrade CPUs, plus the others
already mentioned - termination, ID conflicts, forced SE mode of Ultra
HDs etc.

Strange... As you can see in my answer to Andreas, I've had the same
card with nearly the same problems and never got it to work...

But from what you write here it could point in the direction that the
card originally has been a Win-only card and then flashed to work on a
Mac. - AND - that the flashing hasn't been done correctly.

Sadly I don'øt have the flash tool for the 2940UW (else I could have
sent it to you) - only for the 2940U2W and this tool won't work on the
2940UW card.

Post by ts

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
Adaptec AHA-2903B/AHA2906 (SCSI-2)
Adaptec AVA-2930/2930U Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940 Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940U Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940UW Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940U2W Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940U2B Macintosh Edition

Where did you find this info?

Simple experience... I've had all of these cards myself in various Macs
way back since 1995. I also still have a 2903B, 2906 and a 2930CU [not
2930U as I wrote.:-(] and a in a Mac non-working 2940UW. Last summer I
mounted a 2940U2B into my MDD, where it works just fine. See also answer
to Andreas.

Cheers, Erik Richard

[ts]

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
Strange... As you can see in my answer to Andreas, I've had the same
card with nearly the same problems and never got it to work...
But from what you write here it could point in the direction that the
card originally has been a Win-only card and then flashed to work on a
Mac. - AND - that the flashing hasn't been done correctly.
Sadly I don'øt have the flash tool for the 2940UW (else I could have
sent it to you) - only for the 2940U2W and this tool won't work on the
2940UW card.

The card I've been testing has AHA-2940UW printed on the circuit board,
and on the larges microchip it has a (unadulterated paper sticker with
"AHA-2940UWP1 MAC 945400-01 D 9818" printed on it. It also came
with 1) an original printed User's guide with "PowerDomain
AHA-2940UW/3940UW" printed on it, with installation instructions for
Macintosh PowerMacs, and 2) two original floppy disks with Adaptec
PowerDomain contol software for this particular card. So I have no doubt
it is a card originally manufactured/intended for use in PowerMacs.

ON Adaptecs website, and elsewhere on the Internet, I have not seen any
reference to "Macintosh Edition" Adaptec SCSI cards - only the
"PowerDomain" trademark.

Although I somewhere read that the PowerDomain Mac version cards had a
chip soldered on with flash ROM specific for Macintoshes, I have not
seen any contradictory evidence that PC version cards cannot be ROM
flashed to work in Macs - only the opposite, that PC cards won't work in
Macs. But an someone who once ROM flashed WooDoo 3000 graphics cards to
use in my Macs, I am no longer convinced about the ROM chip story I seem
to have learned from Adaptec sources . . .

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen

Post by ts

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
Adaptec AHA-2903B/AHA2906 (SCSI-2)
Adaptec AVA-2930/2930U Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940 Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940U Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940UW Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940U2W Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940U2B Macintosh Edition

Where did you find this info?

Simple experience... I've had all of these cards myself in various Macs
way back since 1995.

That's interesting - but I am not sure how I should identify any of
those AHA- cards as being Macintosh Edition ones, unless marketed as
Powerdomain cards? I.e., I wonder if "Macintosh Edition" actually is
the same as the "PowerDomain" branded cards (whatever that constitutes).

Many thanks again,

[Erik Richard Sørensen]

Post by ts

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
Strange... As you can see in my answer to Andreas, I've had the same
card with nearly the same problems and never got it to work...
But from what you write here it could point in the direction that the
card originally has been a Win-only card and then flashed to work on a
Mac. - AND - that the flashing hasn't been done correctly.
Sadly I don'øt have the flash tool for the 2940UW (else I could have
sent it to you) - only for the 2940U2W and this tool won't work on the
2940UW card.

The card I've been testing has AHA-2940UW printed on the circuit board,
and on the larges microchip it has a (unadulterated paper sticker with
"AHA-2940UWP1 MAC 945400-01 D 9818" printed on it. It also came
with 1) an original printed User's guide with "PowerDomain
AHA-2940UW/3940UW" printed on it, with installation instructions for
Macintosh PowerMacs, and 2) two original floppy disks with Adaptec
PowerDomain contol software for this particular card. So I have no doubt
it is a card originally manufactured/intended for use in PowerMacs.
ON Adaptecs website, and elsewhere on the Internet, I have not seen any
reference to "Macintosh Edition" Adaptec SCSI cards - only the
"PowerDomain" trademark.

The 'Macintosh Edition' is the sticker with 'MAC' printed on it. So your
card /must/ be a Macintosh Edition card. And the 'AHA-2940UW' also says
that it isnot an 'APD-2940UW' but just the normal AHA-2940 card. The
'945400-01' is the product and main serial ID. The 'D' is the revision
ID. And the last four digits - '9818' should be production year =98 week
=18. - So I find it even more strange that it won't work as it should do
- both in the 9600 and the B&W G3.

Three more questions hre...
1- Which model is your 9600 - 180mhz, 2x200mhz, 250mhz, 300mhz or 350mhz?
2- Are the 9600 CPU upgraded with a Sonnet 700mhz or 800mhz CPU? Or with
a PowerLogix 800mhz or 900mhz? If upgraded, is it with a full upgrade or
just a 400mhz daughter card?
3- How is your RAM mounted - normal or interleaved?
4- Have you tried with another SCA->SCSI/50-pins adapter?

Ad 1, The 9600/300mhz has a 50/50mhz (in/out) motherboard and the
9600/350mhz a 66/50mhz (in/out) motherboard as well ass 1 (one) 66mhz
PCI slot. - If I recall right it's the one at the buttom. This slot was
normally used for the 10" std. 16mb IX-Micro graphics card. If you have
a non-native graphics card like the MACH64/PCI (not AGP ver.),
Radeon128, Matrox Millenium 2/400M/32mb it can be moved to the top PCI
slot to free the buttom slot.

Try to mount the PCI caed into the 66mhz slot. Though all Adaptec Mac
compatible PCI cards can run in any type of PCI, I've found that the
2940U2W and 2940U2B do work best in a 66mhz slot.

Ad 2. If you 9600 has a Sonnet 700/800mhz CPU upgrade, the CPU will not
set the SCSI ID-7 for the CPU as normally done. If you have a PowerLogix
800mhz upgrade card it'll also overrule the ID-7 settings. The
PowerLogiz 900mhz does have the ID-7 as terminator like the std. CPUs.
If it's with a daughtercard, this will block for use with some other
cards in the PCI slots - example. PowerLogix USB+FW combo cards won't
work in such a PM 9600.

Ad 3, Some of the PM 9600 can use both std. 168-pins DIMMs as well as
168-pins EDO DIMMs mixed up in 'Normal' mode, but it won't work well
mixing std. and EDO in 'Interleaved' mode. It might block something
somewhere.

Ad 4, Some cheaper plastic-only SCA-SCSI adapters can make conflicts on
various PCI cards. So if you have another SCA adapter, you should try
that one. The two SCA-SCSI (80->68-pins) I have are made with a metal
frame and not just plastic.

Hm... I presume that you've put the SCA adapter directly into the disk
and not onto the PCI card? - And therefore also using a std. 50-pins
flat SCSI cable?

Post by ts
Although I somewhere read that the PowerDomain Mac version cards had a
chip soldered on with flash ROM specific for Macintoshes, I have not
seen any contradictory evidence that PC version cards cannot be ROM
flashed to work in Macs - only the opposite, that PC cards won't work in
Macs. But an someone who once ROM flashed WooDoo 3000 graphics cards to
use in my Macs, I am no longer convinced about the ROM chip story I seem
to have learned from Adaptec sources . . .

The Adaptec website has never been easy to use, so here you should rely
on XLR8YourMac instead.

As to flashing graphics cards, this can be done with some cards and not
with others. Many of the Matrox PCI card could easily be flashed to work
on the older PowerMacs. And Matrox even made drivers and controlpanels
for these cards - fx. the Matrox Millenium 2/400M 16mb and 32mb. - It's
about the best PCI graphics card I ever have had.

Post by ts

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen

Post by ts

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
Adaptec AHA-2903B/AHA2906 (SCSI-2)
Adaptec AVA-2930/2930U Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940 Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940U Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940UW Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940U2W Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940U2B Macintosh Edition

Where did you find this info?

Simple experience... I've had all of these cards myself in various Macs
way back since 1995.

That's interesting - but I am not sure how I should identify any of
those AHA- cards as being Macintosh Edition ones, unless marketed as
Powerdomain cards? I.e., I wonder if "Macintosh Edition" actually is
the same as the "PowerDomain" branded cards (whatever that constitutes).

If one of them doesn't have the 'MAC' sticker, you shouldn't count on
that it will work - PowerDomaine or not - unless you are quite sure that
it has been flashed correctly by an experienced flasher.

Cheers, Erik Richard

[ts]

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
The 'Macintosh Edition' is the sticker with 'MAC' printed on it. So your
card /must/ be a Macintosh Edition card. And the 'AHA-2940UW' also says
that it isnot an 'APD-2940UW' but just the normal AHA-2940 card.

I didn't know that Powerdomain cards with both APD-2940UW and AHA-2940UW
written on them existed . . .

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
Three more questions hre...
1- Which model is your 9600 - 180mhz, 2x200mhz, 250mhz, 300mhz or 350mhz?
2- Are the 9600 CPU upgraded with a Sonnet 700mhz or 800mhz CPU? Or with
a PowerLogix 800mhz or 900mhz? If upgraded, is it with a full upgrade or
just a 400mhz daughter card?
3- How is your RAM mounted - normal or interleaved?
4- Have you tried with another SCA->SCSI/50-pins adapter?
Ad 1, The 9600/300mhz has a 50/50mhz (in/out) motherboard and the
9600/350mhz a 66/50mhz (in/out) motherboard as well ass 1 (one) 66mhz
PCI slot. - If I recall right it's the one at the buttom. This slot was
normally used for the 10" std. 16mb IX-Micro graphics card. If you have
a non-native graphics card like the MACH64/PCI (not AGP ver.),
Radeon128, Matrox Millenium 2/400M/32mb it can be moved to the top PCI
slot to free the buttom slot.
Try to mount the PCI caed into the 66mhz slot. Though all Adaptec Mac
compatible PCI cards can run in any type of PCI, I've found that the
2940U2W and 2940U2B do work best in a 66mhz slot.

Its a much upgraded 300 MHz version. I read somewhere (xlr8yourmac?)
that the bank of six PCI slots actually are two groups of three, and
that the first (uppermost) of each group are 66MHz slots. To not have to
take out all existing expansion cards (my video card has an extra fan on
it that I would have had to remove the power leads from . . ) I put the
2940UW in slot 4 which then should be the 66MHz slot of the lower bank -
if what I read is correct -?

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
Ad 2. If you 9600 has a Sonnet 700/800mhz CPU upgrade, the CPU will not
set the SCSI ID-7 for the CPU as normally done. If you have a PowerLogix
800mhz upgrade card it'll also overrule the ID-7 settings. The
PowerLogiz 900mhz does have the ID-7 as terminator like the std. CPUs.
If it's with a daughtercard, this will block for use with some other
cards in the PCI slots - example. PowerLogix USB+FW combo cards won't
work in such a PM 9600.

I have a Sonnet G4/800 - but still Adaptec's own SCSIProbe 5.2 reports
the CPU to be ID 7 for all SCSI buses.

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
Ad 3, Some of the PM 9600 can use both std. 168-pins DIMMs as well as
168-pins EDO DIMMs mixed up in 'Normal' mode, but it won't work well
mixing std. and EDO in 'Interleaved' mode. It might block something
somewhere.

Interleaved, I think all is FPM. Most of them 128 MB DIMMS.

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
Ad 4, Some cheaper plastic-only SCA-SCSI adapters can make conflicts on
various PCI cards. So if you have another SCA adapter, you should try
that one. The two SCA-SCSI (80->68-pins) I have are made with a metal
frame and not just plastic.

I have several similar, but not tried to swap the one in the 9600.
Simply because it works just fine with the 2930CU card.

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
Hm... I presume that you've put the SCA adapter directly into the disk
and not onto the PCI card? - And therefore also using a std. 50-pins
flat SCSI cable?

My SCA adapters have a male 50-pin connector and can thus not be
inserted directly into the PCI card. My set-up: 2930CU -> std 50-pin
flat cable -> SCA adapter -> HD.

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
As to flashing graphics cards, this can be done with some cards and not
with others. Many of the Matrox PCI card could easily be flashed to work
on the older PowerMacs. And Matrox even made drivers and controlpanels
for these cards - fx. the Matrox Millenium 2/400M 16mb and 32mb. - It's
about the best PCI graphics card I ever have had.

Agree. But I've changed my Voodoo for a 32 MB Formac card, which can be
tuned with the ProGraphics software from the Control Panel.

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen

Post by ts

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen

Post by ts

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
Adaptec AHA-2903B/AHA2906 (SCSI-2)
Adaptec AVA-2930/2930U Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940 Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940U Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940UW Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940U2W Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940U2B Macintosh Edition

Where did you find this info?

Simple experience... I've had all of these cards myself in various Macs
way back since 1995.

That's interesting - but I am not sure how I should identify any of
those AHA- cards as being Macintosh Edition ones, unless marketed as
Powerdomain cards? I.e., I wonder if "Macintosh Edition" actually is
the same as the "PowerDomain" branded cards (whatever that constitutes).

If one of them doesn't have the 'MAC' sticker, you shouldn't count on
that it will work - PowerDomaine or not - unless you are quite sure that
it has been flashed correctly by an experienced flasher.

Well, the 2940UW I've been testing has been flashed with the latest ROM
version available from Adaptec - v4.1 I thought that it wasn't possible
to flash it less than 100% successfully, and still have the rard report
the ROM version as 4.1.

I've seen mention of the APD/AHA(Mac)-29160N as a card that "should"
work in the grey Powermacs with ultra SCSI drives - and noted that that
isn't on your "tried" list. Any idea whether it would work or not?

Being capable of transfer rates higher than 20 MB/sec is the reason why
I tried the 2940UW card in the first place, but if the 29160 may deliver
even higher data transfer rates it might be a better choice - or is the
bottleneck likely to be somewhere else?

Once again, Many thanks Erik!


PS
om min antagelse er riktig, så har tilfeldighetene ført til av vi her
skriver på engelsk til hverandre, mens vi kanskje kunne ha klart oss på
skandinavisk :-))

[Erik Richard Sørensen]

Sorry for the late comment/answer, but I've been without connection to
usenet for the last couple of weeks - a total nervous breakdown of a
MacPro.:-( - but now I'm back again.:-)

Post by ts

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
The 'Macintosh Edition' is the sticker with 'MAC' printed on it. So your
card /must/ be a Macintosh Edition card. And the 'AHA-2940UW' also says
that it isnot an 'APD-2940UW' but just the normal AHA-2940 card.

I didn't know that Powerdomain cards with both APD-2940UW and AHA-2940UW
written on them existed . . .

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
Three more questions hre...
1- Which model is your 9600 - 180mhz, 2x200mhz, 250mhz, 300mhz or 350mhz?
2- Are the 9600 CPU upgraded with a Sonnet 700mhz or 800mhz CPU? Or with
a PowerLogix 800mhz or 900mhz? If upgraded, is it with a full upgrade or
just a 400mhz daughter card?
3- How is your RAM mounted - normal or interleaved?
4- Have you tried with another SCA->SCSI/50-pins adapter?
Ad 1, The 9600/300mhz has a 50/50mhz (in/out) motherboard and the
9600/350mhz a 66/50mhz (in/out) motherboard as well ass 1 (one) 66mhz
PCI slot. - If I recall right it's the one at the buttom. This slot was
normally used for the 10" std. 16mb IX-Micro graphics card. If you have
a non-native graphics card like the MACH64/PCI (not AGP ver.),
Radeon128, Matrox Millenium 2/400M/32mb it can be moved to the top PCI
slot to free the buttom slot.
Try to mount the PCI caed into the 66mhz slot. Though all Adaptec Mac
compatible PCI cards can run in any type of PCI, I've found that the
2940U2W and 2940U2B do work best in a 66mhz slot.

Its a much upgraded 300 MHz version. I read somewhere (xlr8yourmac?)
that the bank of six PCI slots actually are two groups of three, and
that the first (uppermost) of each group are 66MHz slots. To not have to
take out all existing expansion cards (my video card has an extra fan on
it that I would have had to remove the power leads from . . ) I put the
2940UW in slot 4 which then should be the 66MHz slot of the lower bank -
if what I read is correct -?

Thats's also what I've read... In fact it's build with two parallel PCI
chains - 1+4, 2+5 and 3+6, so yes, 1 and 4 should be 66mhz.

Post by ts

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
Ad 2. If you 9600 has a Sonnet 700/800mhz CPU upgrade, the CPU will not
set the SCSI ID-7 for the CPU as normally done. If you have a PowerLogix
800mhz upgrade card it'll also overrule the ID-7 settings. The
PowerLogiz 900mhz does have the ID-7 as terminator like the std. CPUs.
If it's with a daughtercard, this will block for use with some other
cards in the PCI slots - example. PowerLogix USB+FW combo cards won't
work in such a PM 9600.

I have a Sonnet G4/800 - but still Adaptec's own SCSIProbe 5.2 reports
the CPU to be ID 7 for all SCSI buses.

Ups.:-(! - Here I should have written 'G3 upgrades' instead of just
'upgrades'. - I know nothing about those G4 upgrade cards for the 9600...

Post by ts

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
Ad 3, Some of the PM 9600 can use both std. 168-pins DIMMs as well as
168-pins EDO DIMMs mixed up in 'Normal' mode, but it won't work well
mixing std. and EDO in 'Interleaved' mode. It might block something
somewhere.

Interleaved, I think all is FPM. Most of them 128 MB DIMMS.

OK, then RAM conflicts is not the problem.

Post by ts

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
Ad 4, Some cheaper plastic-only SCA-SCSI adapters can make conflicts on
various PCI cards. So if you have another SCA adapter, you should try
that one. The two SCA-SCSI (80->68-pins) I have are made with a metal
frame and not just plastic.

I have several similar, but not tried to swap the one in the 9600.
Simply because it works just fine with the 2930CU card.

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
Hm... I presume that you've put the SCA adapter directly into the disk
and not onto the PCI card? - And therefore also using a std. 50-pins
flat SCSI cable?

My SCA adapters have a male 50-pin connector and can thus not be
inserted directly into the PCI card. My set-up: 2930CU -> std 50-pin
flat cable -> SCA adapter -> HD.

OK, that's also the normal way of doing it...

Post by ts

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen

Post by ts

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen

Post by ts

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
Adaptec AHA-2903B/AHA2906 (SCSI-2)
Adaptec AVA-2930/2930U Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940 Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940U Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940UW Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940U2W Macintosh Edition
Adaptec AHA-2940U2B Macintosh Edition

Where did you find this info?

Simple experience... I've had all of these cards myself in various Macs
way back since 1995.

That's interesting - but I am not sure how I should identify any of
those AHA- cards as being Macintosh Edition ones, unless marketed as
Powerdomain cards? I.e., I wonder if "Macintosh Edition" actually is
the same as the "PowerDomain" branded cards (whatever that constitutes).

If one of them doesn't have the 'MAC' sticker, you shouldn't count on
that it will work - PowerDomaine or not - unless you are quite sure that
it has been flashed correctly by an experienced flasher.

Well, the 2940UW I've been testing has been flashed with the latest ROM
version available from Adaptec - v4.1 I thought that it wasn't possible
to flash it less than 100% successfully, and still have the rard report
the ROM version as 4.1.

Hm, it might be here the problem is... It /could/ be a conflict between
the G4 CPU and the flashed 2940UW card.

I have a device-specific Canon PCI Ultra SCSI card (for CanoScan SCSI
devices) which should work in both Windows and Macs. Both my PM
9600/350mhz and a PM 9600/300mhz wouldn't recognize it. A G4 Sawtooth
upg. to dual 1,4ghz (OS 9.2.2 + 10.4.11) and 2 QuickSilver upg. to dual
1,8ghz (OS 9.2.2 + 10.5.8) recognized the card in systemProfile, but no
CanoScan devices usable on any of them. I got the error message 'No
device present'.

Post by ts
I've seen mention of the APD/AHA(Mac)-29160N as a card that "should"
work in the grey Powermacs with ultra SCSI drives - and noted that that
isn't on your "tried" list. Any idea whether it would work or not?

Since both the 29160 and the big one - 39320 were made when the PM 9600
and Beige G3's came on the market I think the 29160 will work with the
PM 9600, but I haven't tried this myself. - I thought the 29160 was too
expensive for me at the time.:-)

Post by ts
Being capable of transfer rates higher than 20 MB/sec is the reason why
I tried the 2940UW card in the first place, but if the 29160 may deliver
even higher data transfer rates it might be a better choice - or is the
bottleneck likely to be somewhere else?

The 29160 is definitely faster - up to 160MB/sec. It should be about the
best SCSI card available for a Mac - but again it must be the Macintosh
Edition... - Try to look at XLR8YourMac or MacFixIt if there should be
any conflicts between such a 29160 card combined with CPU upgraded PM
9600 Macs.

Post by ts
Once again, Many thanks Erik!
PS
om min antagelse er riktig, så har tilfeldighetene ført til av vi her
skriver på engelsk til hverandre, mens vi kanskje kunne ha klart oss på
skandinavisk :-))

Det kunne vi sagtens, men så ville de stakkels 'English-only speakers'
sidde og hive sig i hårene af frustrationer over dette 'mærkelige
kaudervelsk'..-))

Cheers, Erik Richard

[ts]

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen
Sorry for the late comment/answer, but I've been without connection to
usenet for the last couple of weeks - a total nervous breakdown of a
MacPro.:-( - but now I'm back again.:-)

Welcome back :-) Not much other traffic here, so we have to appreciate
what we've got. I hope your MacPro keeps doing well!
(snip)

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen

Post by ts
Well, the 2940UW I've been testing has been flashed with the latest ROM
version available from Adaptec - v4.1 I thought that it wasn't possible
to flash it less than 100% successfully, and still have the rard report
the ROM version as 4.1.

Hm, it might be here the problem is... It /could/ be a conflict between
the G4 CPU and the flashed 2940UW card.
I have a device-specific Canon PCI Ultra SCSI card (for CanoScan SCSI
devices) which should work in both Windows and Macs. Both my PM
9600/350mhz and a PM 9600/300mhz wouldn't recognize it. A G4 Sawtooth
upg. to dual 1,4ghz (OS 9.2.2 + 10.4.11) and 2 QuickSilver upg. to dual
1,8ghz (OS 9.2.2 + 10.5.8) recognized the card in systemProfile, but no
CanoScan devices usable on any of them. I got the error message 'No
device present'.

Not easy to trouble-shoot this these days . . . If I get the time, I may
try and re-flash the 2940UW, with first 3.0 and then 4.1 again, to see
if that has any effect.

Post by Erik Richard Sørensen

Post by ts
I've seen mention of the APD/AHA(Mac)-29160N as a card that "should"
work in the grey Powermacs with ultra SCSI drives - and noted that that
isn't on your "tried" list. Any idea whether it would work or not?

Since both the 29160 and the big one - 39320 were made when the PM 9600
and Beige G3's came on the market I think the 29160 will work with the
PM 9600, but I haven't tried this myself. - I thought the 29160 was too
expensive for me at the time.:-)

Both were issued as Macintosh ("Powerdomain") versions, although the
39160s seem to be only 64-Bit cards, that won't fit the 9600 PCI slots.
The 29160N would, though. If I can find a 29160N for reasonable money,
that'll be my next attempt.

Reasonable; today I picked up another 73 GB Cheetah drive on eBay for
£0.99 + P&P. I doubt I'd be offered any more for my heavily upgraded
9600 these days . . .